Brandi Gibson Our building uses parts of MTSS- but not the whole thing- so to me it is not as effective as it could be. I believe sometimes we look at the data, and then we don't apply the knowledge about the data in a constructive manner. Sometimes, we aren't real sure how to read the data. So, oftentimes, that data sits in a file cabinet collecting dust. I believe MTSS could be a valuable learning tool if used in the right way.
I agree with you MTSS can be valuable but if you don't take the data to drive instruction then the data becomes invaluable. Do you have a screener that you go by? AIMs web, dibbles, MAPS ect. I think sometimes our district has to much data and it can be overwhelming. For me I am not a good test taker, I overthink the questions, so for me the data may not show what I truly know. I think we find that a lot. Like in Kindergarten they are timed on some of the test so for many kids that is very stressful.
RTI and MTSS are not exactly used at the high school. We have programs in place (study hall, course choice, assisted studies, and an online academic program) that supplement instruction for students. We continue to struggle with student apathy, which affects learning and achievement. I wish there was a "magic" way to make students want to learn and to care about learning. I know some of these students mentally dropped out in elementary school and are waiting until they turn 16 to have parents sign them out, or 18 to sign themselves out of school. They are facing a very bleak future, one I would like to see changed.
The elementary building I’m in most uses MTSS for reading only, right now. We’ve been discussing how to best implement for Math, and it’s been a discussion that’s continued all year. For reading, the Title I teacher uses data from AIMSweb to sort students into skill groups, an on-level fluency group, and an above-level enrichment group. The skill groups are progress monitored every 3 weeks, and when they have met specific criteria, they are moved out, either to a different skill, or to the fluency group. I don’t know what they use for progress monitoring (if it is a fluency or maze test from AIMSweb or a CBM specific to the skill).
I believe the school is successful through this process. More students are in enrichment groups and fewer students are in skill groups than when we started. The piece that I like is that they aren’t testing to meet benchmark testing times (fall, winter, and spring). They test to gather data and then use that data to drive instruction.
"The piece that I like is that they aren’t testing to meet benchmark testing times (fall, winter, and spring). They test to gather data and then use that data to drive instruction." LOVE this! This is how these programs should be :) I'm so glad you shared this with us! Enrichment opportunities can be so beneficial for struggling learners and it's wonderful to see that there are teachers out there invested in these programs, rather than grudgingly participating.
In the elementary buildings, for reading, we've used AIMSweb data to identify the students in need of further assessment, and QPS and/or PAST to target skills. We then group kids for 30-60 minutes each day, in addition to core instruction in small or very small groups for direct and explicit skill instruction. Progress is monitored weekly for those needing the most intervention, and every third week for Tier II. If a student is not progressing along the aimline towards his/her goal, we adjust the instruction or the instructor. When they master a skill, they move on to another skill in another group. With this targeted intervention, we see several students move up through the skills each month and move up a level (from a "red" to a "yellow" or a "yellow" to a "green") each time we benchmark. It's been exciting to watch what a determined group moving towards the same goal can accomplish. We have procedures in place to implement a process for math next fall.
I wish my elementary building was further along in the MTSS process. I feel explicit skill instruction is an essential component that is missing. Struggling students all seem to get the same intervention instead of one targeted toward the deficit area.
MTSS is used in our district. It can be affective or ineffective as well. For us AIMS web is the screener we look at to put students into ability groups. At the beginning of the year in Kindergarten it is very hard because alot of kids need to placed in a group. By the end of the year it is amazing because the groups that were once 5-6 kids has went down to 3-4 kids. I think intervention does show some success with our smaller groups and intervention teams. The ESL really thrive on the small groups in order to really get the instruction in a different way with a different teacher. I think the thing that does not make sense it that with AIMS web it is timed for kindergarten students, the time factor is something that gets in the way. They may know all the letters but just can't say them fast enough or can count but can't count fast enough. I question this and keeping them in intervention groups just for the time. I know for our sensory kids this is huge and they get so anxious but you get them one on one with no time where they can relax they can do the skill. I think that sometimes our district has so much data that it becomes invaluable. I feel like sometimes is what we are asking Kindergarten students to do is developmentally appropriate. I do see success with students even in Kindergarten but sometimes it takes students all year to have success.
I have heard of AIMS web, I think one of our elementary schools use it or have used it in the past. However I'm not a fan of ability grouping. Does AIMS web work in an environment that does not ability group or is that the only way to work with AIMS web results? Just curious???
Cher- I agree with your thoughts about the timing aspect. It seems like several teachers I’ve talked with also share the same opinion. If we don’t take time into consideration, their accuracy is fine. Even sometimes when moving up to the wpm piece with the older kiddos, there are some that just read more slowly, but they still understand what they’re reading.
We use AIMSweb also, and I like the data that we get from those assessments. I agree with you about the timing issue. Sometimes my kids know the information, they just really struggle completing the task in the minute they are allowed. It's kind-of a catch 22...we want them to be fluent, however, sometimes...for some kids...we are asking too much. The important thing is that they can read and comprehend, not necessarily be fast.
Our district does not actively use RTI, MTSS, or progress monitoring - as discussed with our school psych, there are many things that teachers do that could be considered progress monitoring, but the data is not collected nor analyzed and interpreted for the purpose of RTI or MTSS. Thankfully, she is working with the Superintendent on putting together an MTSS team to remedy this. (God bless her!) I have worked in building that have implemented RTI and/or MTSS and have been a part of those teams and saw great improvement among student abilities, but lack of transfer outside of the English classroom. I would be interested to see these practices taught using a variety of instructional tools and embedded cross-curricularly.
I think that is great of your superintendent to try to help the students. We at the high school do not have anything in place at this time either. Sometimes I think it would be beneficial and other times I think it would be another way for the teachers to care and the students not so much.
We do not really have specific process in our high school that uses MTSS or RTI. I think we attempt to reach all of the students in one way or another but we don't have a specific process. Sometimes students tend to get lost and some never find their way back to the classroom. I think that if used appropriately the programs can be successful and assist students in learning. I have seen some schools models and it look as though it would be successful. In a previous school I taught at we had a model and it seemed to work well, but it was in an elementary school where it was more closely monitored and the students for the most part still cared about academics.
I think it is hard at high school for not only students to buy into the value of academics but their parents too! I have a two different parents this year that have already told we when their kid is 16 they are withdrawing them. So hard to get students on board when this is the attitude at home.
RTI and MTSS is not used in my high school building. We have intervention programs that are in place but the students only get assigned to these programs if they are failing a certain number of classes. First a student will end up on an extended school day until 3:45pm (school is out at 3:15) if this is not successful then the students get placed into an intervention study skills class that takes the place of one of their elective classes. If that has not proven effective than teachers look at data and determine if special education placements need to be considered. So far this year two students have made their way to my caseload through this process. I think that while this a decent process, it takes too long for students to go through it. One of my students who was new to me this year took over 8 months! To me as a high school teacher that is way too much time for them to lose credits and not be on track to graduate.
Like the others my school really does not have a MTSS or RTI model. We do have daily intervention time built in at the end of the day however that has morphed into a work time instead of an intervention time. Students work on missing assignments, redo tests, etc... I have attended an extended MTSS workshop and understand the premise but I feel that schools are hesitant to implement the program, not sure why??? I think teachers use RTI more even though we do not have a model to work from. We are limited on resources so RTI is often what we can do with what we have. I know the teachers here want every student to succeed and they go out of their way to help make that happen unfortunately student apathy is a problem for middle school students also!!
Our school does not have MTSS either. When I have asked why we do not implement it, I have been told that it requires a lot of organization, planning, and structure. It would also require someone to take the lead and be in charge of instruction, data entering, and analysis. Unfortunately, it is not high enough of a priority for our school to pursue it.
My elementary building is doing a good job screening all students in the area of reading. The Title I teacher and I spend quite a bit of time looking at the data and developing reading groups for her. Sadly, that is where the process seems to end. Students are getting 30 minutes of extra reading instruction at Tier II, but if that is not working, there really isn't another Tier or step in place. Some students who are referred to SIT get some additional instruction time, but for many it's a change of strategies or an added program.
Our reading program has MTSS kind of built in. Students are grouped by ability and are therefore given the chance for intervention through tutoring. It's not a great MTSS model and I think we could do much better overall. Only the lowest students have access to the tutoring and I feel like more students would benefit from it. We use MAP data and testing data from the SFA program itself to determine who is eligible for tutoring and then we get them the help needed. However, there aren't very many available slots for tutoring so sometimes the kids aren't getting the help they need.
This has been a hot topic in one of my districts recently, and I was actually just part of a faculty meeting earlier this week where we discussed this process. In this particular district, it doesn’t seem as if RTI is used so much as MTSS. However, with MTSS, people are just going through the motions. The data collected isn’t being used to drive instruction or determine different or other interventions that could be beneficial for students. It comes across more as just a waiting game until students hit a low enough number to be referred for special education. Since the intervention process tends to lack a problem-solving piece and is viewed as a hoop to jump through in referring a student for special education (Rather than as a way of providing them with increasingly individualized and intensive instruction to avoid special education), in my mind, I don’t see it as being successful. Now, don’t get me wrong, I think if RTI and MTSS are implemented completely as they’re intended to be, the process is WONDERFUL, but… That’s just not what’s happening in this particular building right now.
How does your building use RTI or MTSS and progress monitoring to determine student progress? I feel that my school does not use RTI an MTSS to the best of their ability. I feel like alot of kids are falling through the cracks. I feel like we progress monitor, but then do not use that data in the most effective way to drive our groups and drive our instruction. I think that our school is trying better at creating a system to provide RTI, but it is slow going.
How does your building use RTI or MTSS and progress monitoring to determine student progress? What is your opinion of its success?
When I was taking classes for my degree, the concept of RtI struck me with its simplicity and effectiveness. It is a system that provides instruction as well as leveled interventions to students in an organic, objective way. I was floored that my school does not use a model like this. As I have questioned this, I have found that most people believe that it is too much work and organization. Unless one person is willing to run the program and ensure its success, the risk of it falling apart was too great. This is unfortunate as its success seems sure.
My school uses reteaching as intervention for math and a Read 180 class for reading. As far as I can tell, reteaching in math helps students with homework completion and even concept cementing, but does not fill in gaps or help students foundationally. Read 180 helps students in many ways, but does not gear itself to individual student needs or progress monitor enough. I would love to see my school think about adopting an RtI model!
At Stanton County Elementary, they have set a designated time for reading intervention in which all students receive either Tier I, Tier II, or Tier III intervention. They base their differing tiers on Dibels and Aimsweb scores and increase the intensity and time depending on the tier in which individual students fall. As a result, we have had good data to make decisions. The data taken has provided evidence of student progress and whether a comprehensive evaluation was needed. It has provided evidence when parent referrals have been received because parents could see the actual levels at which their child was performing in relationship to the average child. Overall, it has cut down on referrals for evaluation. At SCEL, they continue to think about how math intervention might be incorporated, but this has not yet been accomplished. In the other schools I serve, they have data, but the data is not used to provide specific interventions.
We do not use the RTI model. Our school uses a reteach for math and a R180 program for reading. The reteach helps students understand the math concepts being taught, but it doesn't help if they are lacking basic skills such as the ability to manipulate fractions. The R180 program mostly helps our ESL students with vocabulary.
Our building uses MTSS for reading, and it has been very successful. All students are benchmark tested and then sorted based on their accuracy and their scores. There are on level groups, an enrichment group, and off level groups sorted into needs at every grade level. Students are progress monitored either weekly or biweekly. Approximately once a month, the PLC time is used to discuss group data and determine if a student needs to move groups. We have seen a lot of growth from students using this model. I always have the lowest groups per grade level, but I think that it would be nice sometime to have one of the higher groups. One of the nice things is that I use the MTSS time period during the day as my pull-out time. This has helped me keep kids in their classrooms for core instruction. It's kind-of a win-win situation for everyone.
We are hoping to start MTSS for math in the fall. It was piloted in a few classes this year. The problem that keeps coming up is the time issue. When will they add those minutes to a student's day without having them miss any core instruction. I'm excited to see what they come up with.
Brandi Gibson
ReplyDeleteOur building uses parts of MTSS- but not the whole thing- so to me it is not as effective as it could be. I believe sometimes we look at the data, and then we don't apply the knowledge about the data in a constructive manner. Sometimes, we aren't real sure how to read the data. So, oftentimes, that data sits in a file cabinet collecting dust. I believe MTSS could be a valuable learning tool if used in the right way.
I agree with you MTSS can be valuable but if you don't take the data to drive instruction then the data becomes invaluable. Do you have a screener that you go by? AIMs web, dibbles, MAPS ect. I think sometimes our district has to much data and it can be overwhelming. For me I am not a good test taker, I overthink the questions, so for me the data may not show what I truly know. I think we find that a lot. Like in Kindergarten they are timed on some of the test so for many kids that is very stressful.
DeleteRTI and MTSS are not exactly used at the high school. We have programs in place (study hall, course choice, assisted studies, and an online academic program) that supplement instruction for students. We continue to struggle with student apathy, which affects learning and achievement. I wish there was a "magic" way to make students want to learn and to care about learning. I know some of these students mentally dropped out in elementary school and are waiting until they turn 16 to have parents sign them out, or 18 to sign themselves out of school. They are facing a very bleak future, one I would like to see changed.
ReplyDeleteApathy is a problem for so many high school students. I'm with you - I wish there was a magic wand to wave to make students want to learn.
DeleteThe elementary building I’m in most uses MTSS for reading only, right now. We’ve been discussing how to best implement for Math, and it’s been a discussion that’s continued all year. For reading, the Title I teacher uses data from AIMSweb to sort students into skill groups, an on-level fluency group, and an above-level enrichment group. The skill groups are progress monitored every 3 weeks, and when they have met specific criteria, they are moved out, either to a different skill, or to the fluency group. I don’t know what they use for progress monitoring (if it is a fluency or maze test from AIMSweb or a CBM specific to the skill).
ReplyDeleteI believe the school is successful through this process. More students are in enrichment groups and fewer students are in skill groups than when we started. The piece that I like is that they aren’t testing to meet benchmark testing times (fall, winter, and spring). They test to gather data and then use that data to drive instruction.
"The piece that I like is that they aren’t testing to meet benchmark testing times (fall, winter, and spring). They test to gather data and then use that data to drive instruction." LOVE this! This is how these programs should be :) I'm so glad you shared this with us! Enrichment opportunities can be so beneficial for struggling learners and it's wonderful to see that there are teachers out there invested in these programs, rather than grudgingly participating.
DeleteIn the elementary buildings, for reading, we've used AIMSweb data to identify the students in need of further assessment, and QPS and/or PAST to target skills. We then group kids for 30-60 minutes each day, in addition to core instruction in small or very small groups for direct and explicit skill instruction. Progress is monitored weekly for those needing the most intervention, and every third week for Tier II. If a student is not progressing along the aimline towards his/her goal, we adjust the instruction or the instructor. When they master a skill, they move on to another skill in another group. With this targeted intervention, we see several students move up through the skills each month and move up a level (from a "red" to a "yellow" or a "yellow" to a "green") each time we benchmark. It's been exciting to watch what a determined group moving towards the same goal can accomplish. We have procedures in place to implement a process for math next fall.
ReplyDeleteIt seems like the system you're using is successful. How did the teachers initially respond to such flexible grouping?
DeleteI wish my elementary building was further along in the MTSS process. I feel explicit skill instruction is an essential component that is missing. Struggling students all seem to get the same intervention instead of one targeted toward the deficit area.
DeleteMTSS is used in our district. It can be affective or ineffective as well. For us AIMS web is the screener we look at to put students into ability groups. At the beginning of the year in Kindergarten it is very hard because alot of kids need to placed in a group. By the end of the year it is amazing because the groups that were once 5-6 kids has went down to 3-4 kids. I think intervention does show some success with our smaller groups and intervention teams. The ESL really thrive on the small groups in order to really get the instruction in a different way with a different teacher. I think the thing that does not make sense it that with AIMS web it is timed for kindergarten students, the time factor is something that gets in the way. They may know all the letters but just can't say them fast enough or can count but can't count fast enough. I question this and keeping them in intervention groups just for the time. I know for our sensory kids this is huge and they get so anxious but you get them one on one with no time where they can relax they can do the skill. I think that sometimes our district has so much data that it becomes invaluable. I feel like sometimes is what we are asking Kindergarten students to do is developmentally appropriate. I do see success with students even in Kindergarten but sometimes it takes students all year to have success.
ReplyDeleteI have heard of AIMS web, I think one of our elementary schools use it or have used it in the past. However I'm not a fan of ability grouping. Does AIMS web work in an environment that does not ability group or is that the only way to work with AIMS web results? Just curious???
DeleteCher-
DeleteI agree with your thoughts about the timing aspect. It seems like several teachers I’ve talked with also share the same opinion. If we don’t take time into consideration, their accuracy is fine. Even sometimes when moving up to the wpm piece with the older kiddos, there are some that just read more slowly, but they still understand what they’re reading.
We use AIMSweb also, and I like the data that we get from those assessments. I agree with you about the timing issue. Sometimes my kids know the information, they just really struggle completing the task in the minute they are allowed. It's kind-of a catch 22...we want them to be fluent, however, sometimes...for some kids...we are asking too much. The important thing is that they can read and comprehend, not necessarily be fast.
DeleteOur district does not actively use RTI, MTSS, or progress monitoring - as discussed with our school psych, there are many things that teachers do that could be considered progress monitoring, but the data is not collected nor analyzed and interpreted for the purpose of RTI or MTSS. Thankfully, she is working with the Superintendent on putting together an MTSS team to remedy this. (God bless her!) I have worked in building that have implemented RTI and/or MTSS and have been a part of those teams and saw great improvement among student abilities, but lack of transfer outside of the English classroom. I would be interested to see these practices taught using a variety of instructional tools and embedded cross-curricularly.
ReplyDeleteI think that is great of your superintendent to try to help the students. We at the high school do not have anything in place at this time either. Sometimes I think it would be beneficial and other times I think it would be another way for the teachers to care and the students not so much.
DeleteWe do not really have specific process in our high school that uses MTSS or RTI. I think we attempt to reach all of the students in one way or another but we don't have a specific process. Sometimes students tend to get lost and some never find their way back to the classroom. I think that if used appropriately the programs can be successful and assist students in learning. I have seen some schools models and it look as though it would be successful. In a previous school I taught at we had a model and it seemed to work well, but it was in an elementary school where it was more closely monitored and the students for the most part still cared about academics.
ReplyDeleteI think it is hard at high school for not only students to buy into the value of academics but their parents too! I have a two different parents this year that have already told we when their kid is 16 they are withdrawing them. So hard to get students on board when this is the attitude at home.
DeleteRTI and MTSS is not used in my high school building. We have intervention programs that are in place but the students only get assigned to these programs if they are failing a certain number of classes. First a student will end up on an extended school day until 3:45pm (school is out at 3:15) if this is not successful then the students get placed into an intervention study skills class that takes the place of one of their elective classes. If that has not proven effective than teachers look at data and determine if special education placements need to be considered. So far this year two students have made their way to my caseload through this process. I think that while this a decent process, it takes too long for students to go through it. One of my students who was new to me this year took over 8 months! To me as a high school teacher that is way too much time for them to lose credits and not be on track to graduate.
ReplyDeleteLike the others my school really does not have a MTSS or RTI model. We do have daily intervention time built in at the end of the day however that has morphed into a work time instead of an intervention time. Students work on missing assignments, redo tests, etc... I have attended an extended MTSS workshop and understand the premise but I feel that schools are hesitant to implement the program, not sure why???
ReplyDeleteI think teachers use RTI more even though we do not have a model to work from. We are limited on resources so RTI is often what we can do with what we have. I know the teachers here want every student to succeed and they go out of their way to help make that happen unfortunately student apathy is a problem for middle school students also!!
Our school does not have MTSS either. When I have asked why we do not implement it, I have been told that it requires a lot of organization, planning, and structure. It would also require someone to take the lead and be in charge of instruction, data entering, and analysis. Unfortunately, it is not high enough of a priority for our school to pursue it.
DeleteMy elementary building is doing a good job screening all students in the area of reading. The Title I teacher and I spend quite a bit of time looking at the data and developing reading groups for her. Sadly, that is where the process seems to end. Students are getting 30 minutes of extra reading instruction at Tier II, but if that is not working, there really isn't another Tier or step in place. Some students who are referred to SIT get some additional instruction time, but for many it's a change of strategies or an added program.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you Jan. I feel like there needs to be more options to try before just getting referred to special ed.
DeleteOur reading program has MTSS kind of built in. Students are grouped by ability and are therefore given the chance for intervention through tutoring. It's not a great MTSS model and I think we could do much better overall. Only the lowest students have access to the tutoring and I feel like more students would benefit from it. We use MAP data and testing data from the SFA program itself to determine who is eligible for tutoring and then we get them the help needed. However, there aren't very many available slots for tutoring so sometimes the kids aren't getting the help they need.
ReplyDeleteThis has been a hot topic in one of my districts recently, and I was actually just part of a faculty meeting earlier this week where we discussed this process. In this particular district, it doesn’t seem as if RTI is used so much as MTSS. However, with MTSS, people are just going through the motions. The data collected isn’t being used to drive instruction or determine different or other interventions that could be beneficial for students. It comes across more as just a waiting game until students hit a low enough number to be referred for special education. Since the intervention process tends to lack a problem-solving piece and is viewed as a hoop to jump through in referring a student for special education (Rather than as a way of providing them with increasingly individualized and intensive instruction to avoid special education), in my mind, I don’t see it as being successful. Now, don’t get me wrong, I think if RTI and MTSS are implemented completely as they’re intended to be, the process is WONDERFUL, but… That’s just not what’s happening in this particular building right now.
ReplyDeleteHow does your building use RTI or MTSS and progress monitoring to determine student progress? I feel that my school does not use RTI an MTSS to the best of their ability. I feel like alot of kids are falling through the cracks. I feel like we progress monitor, but then do not use that data in the most effective way to drive our groups and drive our instruction. I think that our school is trying better at creating a system to provide RTI, but it is slow going.
ReplyDeleteI feel the same way with our school. We have a couple of programs but it is not individualized.
DeleteHow does your building use RTI or MTSS and progress monitoring to determine student progress? What is your opinion of its success?
ReplyDeleteWhen I was taking classes for my degree, the concept of RtI struck me with its simplicity and effectiveness. It is a system that provides instruction as well as leveled interventions to students in an organic, objective way. I was floored that my school does not use a model like this. As I have questioned this, I have found that most people believe that it is too much work and organization. Unless one person is willing to run the program and ensure its success, the risk of it falling apart was too great. This is unfortunate as its success seems sure.
My school uses reteaching as intervention for math and a Read 180 class for reading. As far as I can tell, reteaching in math helps students with homework completion and even concept cementing, but does not fill in gaps or help students foundationally. Read 180 helps students in many ways, but does not gear itself to individual student needs or progress monitor enough. I would love to see my school think about adopting an RtI model!
At Stanton County Elementary, they have set a designated time for reading intervention in which all students receive either Tier I, Tier II, or Tier III intervention. They base their differing tiers on Dibels and Aimsweb scores and increase the intensity and time depending on the tier in which individual students fall. As a result, we have had good data to make decisions. The data taken has provided evidence of student progress and whether a comprehensive evaluation was needed. It has provided evidence when parent referrals have been received because parents could see the actual levels at which their child was performing in relationship to the average child. Overall, it has cut down on referrals for evaluation. At SCEL, they continue to think about how math intervention might be incorporated, but this has not yet been accomplished. In the other schools I serve, they have data, but the data is not used to provide specific interventions.
ReplyDeleteWe do not use the RTI model. Our school uses a reteach for math and a R180 program for reading. The reteach helps students understand the math concepts being taught, but it doesn't help if they are lacking basic skills such as the ability to manipulate fractions. The R180 program mostly helps our ESL students with vocabulary.
ReplyDeleteOur building uses MTSS for reading, and it has been very successful. All students are benchmark tested and then sorted based on their accuracy and their scores. There are on level groups, an enrichment group, and off level groups sorted into needs at every grade level. Students are progress monitored either weekly or biweekly. Approximately once a month, the PLC time is used to discuss group data and determine if a student needs to move groups. We have seen a lot of growth from students using this model. I always have the lowest groups per grade level, but I think that it would be nice sometime to have one of the higher groups. One of the nice things is that I use the MTSS time period during the day as my pull-out time. This has helped me keep kids in their classrooms for core instruction. It's kind-of a win-win situation for everyone.
ReplyDeleteWe are hoping to start MTSS for math in the fall. It was piloted in a few classes this year. The problem that keeps coming up is the time issue. When will they add those minutes to a student's day without having them miss any core instruction. I'm excited to see what they come up with.